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Clean Energy Caught in the Political Mire

Huffington Post -- A New York Times editorial on Memorial Day discussed America's progress in implementing renewable energy and expressed concern about Republican moves to reduce renewable energy subsidies from $44 billion in 2009 to $11 billion in 2014. The Times' editors are correct in expressing alarm, since these subsidies can provide the extra push needed to accelerate the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy. This transition is critical to America's future economic well being and to sustainable development worldwide.

The transition to lower cost and plentiful renewable energy will happen some day, and in the end it will be the free market that delivers this new technology. But the pace of change can be accelerated with carefully designed and targeted subsidies.

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Submitted May 30, 2012 By: dgerst

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Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,188 Points:1,139,045 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 4:15:05 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse The course is clear, follow the Gekkos and luddites of the GOP......or work to develop a smarter, better future....where everything won't be made in China... We have had 30 years of GOP stupid. Isn't that enough destruction of America.
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,188 Points:1,139,045 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 4:12:39 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse And the bias blinders are securely fitted on soda doc, RNC and their fellow comrades.... They hate anything factual---- and love their nonsense.
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,188 Points:1,139,045 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 4:09:22 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Picking winners.... you mean like buying certain weapon systems for the Pentagon...
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,188 Points:1,139,045 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 4:06:34 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse Maybe because RNC and soda doc want all the clean and inventions ....and the new economy to be based in China..... How exceptionally "patriotic" of them..
Gnusman53 Champion Author San Diego Posts:7,188 Points:1,139,045 Joined:Feb 2004	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2012 4:04:26 PM Ignore Gnusman53 Report Abuse So, RNC is saying we are killing oil companies with the tax breaks and subsidies.... (grin)....
52MPG Champion Author Dayton Posts:7,397 Points:1,768,430 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: May 31, 2012 2:58:04 AM Ignore 52MPG Report Abuse Government trying to picking winners by giving subsidies is a waste of money.
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,667 Points:1,229,200 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:54:22 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse Here is the bottom line: "The transition to renewable energy will come to America. The question is, will the new renewable energy technologies be invented here, or will we have to buy them from foreign countries where governments have sophisticated and functioning public-private partnerships? Will we allow the idiocy of our anti-government ideology to destroy our ability to discover and deploy these critical new technologies?" Is the US going to follow or lead? Cause Renewable Energy is gonna happen. OrphancarguyPE...You nailed it!
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:9,159 Points:778,875 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 11:26:27 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse RNCII nails it!
schatzila Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:5,084 Points:1,043,345 Joined:Jun 2010	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 11:12:12 AM Ignore schatzila Report Abuse Politics causing a standstill, again.
aquarinut Champion Author British Columbia Posts:1,630 Points:444,595 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 9:53:05 AM Ignore aquarinut Report Abuse Well said RNCII!!!
RNCII Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,608 Points:669,080 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 9:38:10 AM Ignore RNCII Report Abuse If you want a sure way to destroy anything subsidize it. This way it can suck up billions of tax dollars and never learn how the stand on it's own. Look at Spain the subsidizes dry up and the green energy industry can't ran away fast enough. We have a 15 trillion dollar national debt and climbing yet we still think spending money we don't have is a good thing. What do you expect will happen when that debt is called in? Let get real people this debt and spending will destroy us and the end is closing fast.
batloverNM Champion Author Albuquerque Posts:3,947 Points:1,394,800 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 9:17:30 AM Ignore batloverNM Report Abuse Clean energy is better for our health than breathing the air pollution generated by using fossil fuels.
orphancarguyPE Champion Author PEI Posts:3,905 Points:758,100 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:48:43 AM Ignore orphancarguyPE Report Abuse Alternative energy makes economic sense now in most places, once you can get over the difference of paying a 'monthly rental fee forever' to a utility compared to a large capital cost, paid off over several years including 'free' energy (heat, or electricity), followed eventually by actual free energy. Its the difference between leasing/renting and never owning anything, and mortgaging to eventually own something. It only makes sense over a long period over say ten years or more, when most people can barely plan month by month. There was and is nothing wrong with tariffs and subsidies (direct, or indirect) to jump-start a new industry. Scaling up to mass production and standard usage always brings prices down through economies of scale. Scaling up anything new takes years. My beef has always been that some jurisdictions set up some quite unlivable conditions in extremely long-term contracts that have come back to bite them. --80 cents a kw/hour for solar PV electric? for 20 years? I can see that for say three years or so to pay off/down the capital cost, dropping 10 cents a kw/h every year after that until it is just a few cents per kw/hour more expensive than existing and completely amortized plants. More in line with the unamortized cost of some NEW yet to be built plant that will meet current and future pollution standards. People would have still made a profit installing it. You have to entice people to try something new, but it doesn't have to be long term or open ended. That is just crazy. --ditto on the wind contracts. There are better ways to do it. A local small city (Summerside PE) spent $30 million installing 4 very large Vestas, for 10 megawatts of production. Through their own municipal utility they sell electricity to the city for its own operations (think stoplights, streetlights, water and water treatment) and to residents with a BETTER margin that what they were doing generating their own electricity, or buying it on the open market from third parties. The city had revenues of $18 million last year, of which about $1 million was in profits. Things like rinks and sports fields got "free electricity" (out of these profits) to operate at nights so that costs for parents for their kids getting exercise/playing on teams using these facilities would actually fall. Besides being cost competitive with other sources, it pays for itself, does good for the community (and taxpayers) and rates for electricity are slowing coming more into line with what most others pay elsewhere (electricity is more expensive on an island) I installed solar air heating and solar hot water bit by bit over 5 years. I got a break on sales taxes; that is all. My investment of $10-11,000 has all been cost recovered by heating oil not bought, for both heating and hot water. When I install Solar PV this year--only about 5,000 watts instead of the 10,000 or more most house have--its going to be a grid tie two meter system (cheaper) rather than a standalone with battery packs etc. I pay for electricity I use from the grid, and I get a credit for the electricity I send to the grid separately. Same price, no subsidies. Of course, I am actively getting my electricity use down so that it makes more 'sense' to me. I'm averaging about 6.4 kw/h a day, down from 3 or more times that. Even so, it will cost recover at 7-8 years with me continuing to pay 'normal bills' or the equivalent, and after that, my electricity is free and completely covered by warranty for another 17 years. If I keep adding a panel or two each year, I will start making net income.
CapriceWagon Champion Author Washington Posts:1,009 Points:503,620 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:42:33 AM Ignore CapriceWagon Report Abuse That's funny, I've heard all the whirlygigs they've been putting up around here were made in Holland or some Norwegian country, sounds like we're subsidizing them, too
StArrow68 Champion Author Oakland Posts:3,392 Points:1,387,440 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:34:07 AM Ignore StArrow68 Report Abuse Actually well thought out, some govt support of new tech isn't all bad, but what Washington has tried to do is provide massive support to things that will bring in votes to the current administration. "But the pace of change can be accelerated with carefully designed and targeted subsidies. " So far, the current administration hasn't shown any ability to either design or target susidies, just waste taxpayer dollars.
Prius_III Sophomore Author Philadelphia Posts:145 Points:51,800 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:25:05 AM Ignore Prius_III Report Abuse Subsidies are by definition wasteful because they divert resorces towards less efficient uses. Let's end all of these subsidies now.
Evilmaddog Champion Author British Columbia Posts:3,466 Points:985,250 Joined:Aug 2010	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:23:39 AM Ignore Evilmaddog Report Abuse $$$$$$$$
fracknsave Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:1,666 Points:58,000 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:20:17 AM Ignore fracknsave Report Abuse dgrst, nobody is stopping YOU from going completely 100 green, knock yourself out.
fracknsave Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:1,666 Points:58,000 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:17:44 AM Ignore fracknsave Report Abuse There's usually one sentence I agree with, "and in the end it will be the free market that delivers this new technology."
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:9,159 Points:778,875 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:12:55 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse Clean energy is caught in the mire of false pretense. HuffNPuff will never understand this because of their bias blinders. Everyone wants cleaner energy, they just don't want it pushed on the false premise of The Church of Global Warming.
Skunk63 Champion Author Phoenix Posts:2,692 Points:585,375 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:08:00 AM Ignore Skunk63 Report Abuse That's great. How about letting the free market find a solution and stop wasting taxpayer money on subsidies?
FPLREP Champion Author Virginia Posts:8,400 Points:2,475,810 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:07:21 AM Ignore FPLREP Report Abuse Joke: This week a solar-powered plane attempted to fly more than 1,500 miles. It was going great until the plane encountered one technical problem — night.
gandalfthegrey1 Champion Author Houston Posts:1,184 Points:384,785 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:05:44 AM Ignore gandalfthegrey1 Report Abuse Of course HufPost & NYT do their best to fan the flames of tax and spend. If the economy was flush, investment in alternative energy would have some traction. Right now, it does not.
cdrrod Champion Author Wisconsin Posts:4,286 Points:809,525 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 8:03:08 AM Ignore cdrrod Report Abuse "The transition to renewable energy will come to America. The question is, will the new renewable energy technologies be invented here, or will we have to buy them from foreign countries? Will we allow those concerned about budgets and deficits stifle the American innovative spirit to discover and deploy these critical new clean energy technologies?" Well spoken, dgerst!
dgerst Champion Author South Carolina Posts:2,801 Points:578,525 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 7:56:42 AM Ignore dgerst Report Abuse The case against fossil fuels is: - pollution - climate change - coast line flooding - ecosystems damaged by fuel extraction - Fossil fuels are finite - Transportation from where they are found to where they are used - As fossil fuels get scarcer they get more expensive To power a planet of ten billion people over the long term requires technology more advanced than burning fossil fuels. The transition to renewable energy will come to America. The question is, will the new renewable energy technologies be invented here, or will we have to buy them from foreign countries? Will we allow those concerned about budgets and deficits stifle the American innovative spirit to discover and deploy these critical new clean energy technologies?
FPLREP Champion Author Virginia Posts:8,400 Points:2,475,810 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 7:55:48 AM Ignore FPLREP Report Abuse Clean energy is fine, just don't do it with political under pinnings.
humblepie Champion Author Toledo Posts:35,325 Points:2,399,070 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: May 30, 2012 7:54:58 AM Ignore humblepie Report Abuse only when it gets to be LOWER cost..............