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Author	Topic: Religions are just cults with more members	Topic is locked Back to Topics

bikerscooby Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:8,671 Points:1,654,190 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Feb 25, 2005 11:25:16 AM Ignore bikerscooby Report Abuse I have a bumper sticker that says that, on my truck. I believe that religion is simply a tool used by the powerful to control and oppress gullible people. I also believe that most churches are fraud-based businesses formed for tax evasion purposes, used to scam people out of their money, and used to influence people's views for political gain. Do you agree?

bikerscooby

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Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Feb 25, 2005 11:25:16 AM

Ignore bikerscooby Report Abuse

I have a bumper sticker that says that, on my truck.

I believe that religion is simply a tool used by the powerful to control and oppress gullible people.

I also believe that most churches are fraud-based businesses formed for tax evasion purposes, used to scam people out of their money, and used to influence people's views for political gain.

Do you agree?

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johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Nov 11, 2008 1:39:37 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse Actually, I don't think any god had anything to do with it. Can't we take responsibility for what we have created?
carol2547 Rookie Author Orlando Posts:4 Points:280 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Nov 11, 2008 12:36:23 PM Ignore carol2547 Report Abuse "I'm glad some people have that faith. I don't have that faith. If there is a God, a caring God, then we have to figure he's done an extraordinary job of making a very cruel world." -Dave Matthews, South African rock musician
BuzzBomb Champion Author Honolulu Posts:24,477 Points:3,495,955 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: Jul 27, 2007 1:44:01 PM Ignore BuzzBomb Report Abuse Ramaniac, go away. You are in the wrong place!
Pastafarian Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,111 Points:413,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Mar 30, 2007 3:01:38 PM Ignore Pastafarian Report Abuse Oh, I see. Yes, I would see a cult as more of a concern than a religion, because cults tend to be heavier on the authoritarianism, control and secrecy.
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Mar 30, 2007 1:53:47 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse Pastafarian, You haven't lost track of the thread, I was querying your distinction between religion and cult trying to clarify whether you felt that religion was the lesser of the two concerns? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you would be more apprehensive about someone becoming involved with say Scientology than you would the Catholic Church because Scientology appears to be more authoritarian or controlling in whatever way?
Pastafarian Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,111 Points:413,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Mar 30, 2007 9:10:59 AM Ignore Pastafarian Report Abuse I'm confused, Johnsell. I've lost track of the thread. I thought we were talking about "religions" versus "cults," and I was just providing an illustration in response to your inquiry. You wrote, "I would hope your son had the same sense you have to be able to ask questions...." I agree with all that. I just don't see how it bears on the usage of "cult" versus "religion." (BTW, my sons are adults, out on their own, and I pity the cult that tries to recruit thier skeptical, acerbic butts. It was just an example.)
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Mar 30, 2007 1:13:07 AM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse Pastafarian, again, unless you have some factual data about what you are concerned about I would hope your son had the same sense you have to be able to ask questions of you and others to be able to determine what he was getting into? If I have good communication and understanding with my son, then what he would choose to join would be understandable to me and he would understand my concern. If not, then it is his choice and he goes in at least knowing what's real from my viewpoint and the risks involved. If he doesn't listen at all, then I failed him a lot earlier.
Pastafarian Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,111 Points:413,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Mar 29, 2007 8:43:34 PM Ignore Pastafarian Report Abuse Johnsell, see my post at 1:03 p.m. Tuesday for my explanation of the difference. Cults' combination of secrecy and authoritarianism raises serious risks, and I likely wouldn't even know what the risks might be. (Think Jim Jones. Think Heaven's Gate.) Hence the alarm.
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Mar 29, 2007 7:14:16 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse Pastafarian, I hear you, however now I'm curious why you would be alarmed as opposed to exasperated if your son joined a cult? What's the difference?
Pastafarian Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,111 Points:413,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Mar 29, 2007 4:45:59 PM Ignore Pastafarian Report Abuse Johnsell, I wouldn't say it's necessary. I'd say it's useful. In the vernacular I'm familiar with, there's the distinction I outlined. I find the distinction useful in communicating, including communicating concerns. I'd be exasperated if my son joined a religion, but alarmed if he joined a cult. The terms are used imprecisely, and different people use them different ways. But that's the inevitable nature of human language. And it doesn't mean it's a bad idea to communicate distinctions by using words with similar but different meanings, or similar meanings but different connotations. (Think of "explain," "lecture," "pontificate" and "harangue," for example. ☺) Anyway, it's notoriously futile to try to legislate the meanings of words. People will use them the way they use them. One could insist that "religion" and "cult" have the same meaning, and people will continue to use them to draw a distinction.
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Mar 29, 2007 3:08:00 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse Pastafarian - I'm curious why you find it necessary to distinguish between "religion" and "cult" rather than just addressing one's concern? The minute you try to distinguish you set and form label which is too general to communicate what differences you may be trying to distinguish.
ldheinz Champion Author Chicago Posts:19,041 Points:2,359,845 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Mar 29, 2007 9:52:50 AM Ignore ldheinz Report Abuse "One man's religion is another man's belly laugh." - Robert Heinlein.
Pastafarian Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,111 Points:413,955 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Mar 27, 2007 12:03:00 PM Ignore Pastafarian Report Abuse It's useful to distinguish between "religion" and "cult" in the ways they're commonly used. To my mind, a cult is a religion whose members keep their beliefs secret from outsiders and who are devoted and obedient to an authoritarian leader. Since I find belief in the supernatural strange, every religion I know about seems strange, including Catholicism. But Catholics do not keep their beliefs secret, and while the Pope may wish otherwise, Catholics on the whole don't seem very devoted or obedient to him. So I'd call Scientology a cult, but not Catholicism. (Interesting to see how many users apparently participated in this thread and are no longer with us, their posts having disappeared.) [Edited by: Pastafarian at 3/27/2007 1:05:33 PM EST]
bikerscooby Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:8,671 Points:1,654,190 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Mar 26, 2007 5:20:56 PM Ignore bikerscooby Report Abuse Today's the 10th anniversary of the Heaven's Gate cult's mass suicide near San Diego. From ABC News, the focus of the cult was this: "According to their teachings, Jesus had arrived 2,000 years earlier in a spaceship to prepare people for "the next level above human," but he had been crucified before he could complete his mission. Now, the savior had returned in the person of Applewhite — and he and Nettles told their followers that their human bodies were nothing more than "vehicles" to carry their souls until they were all ready to ascend to the next level." Most reasonable people would find this ridiculous, along with the mass-suicide that was done in order for these people to "ascend to the next level". But WHY don't people realize that this cult is no different than all the other cults and religions in existence, and that the POPE with his white dress, red shoes, and gigantic gold crown hat is no less wacky than this cult leader?
knowfreeride Champion Author Boston Posts:1,760 Points:489,805 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Nov 9, 2006 8:42:27 AM Ignore knowfreeride Report Abuse So totally true! Unfortunately the undeveloped human pscyche has a need to feel part of a larger group. For some religion feeds this need.
Fill-up Champion Author Toronto Posts:1,907 Points:434,875 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Nov 8, 2006 4:03:52 PM Ignore Fill-up Report Abuse The way they can just go around twisting peoples minds. Yes, I agree.
KatmanDo Champion Author Detroit Posts:12,808 Points:2,614,235 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Oct 23, 2006 10:13:51 PM Ignore KatmanDo Report Abuse "* Note that "Truth" in this context refers to the Christian cult brand name information product sold in their church..." Obviously. That goes without saying.
bikerscooby Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:8,671 Points:1,654,190 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: Oct 23, 2006 3:58:57 PM Ignore bikerscooby Report Abuse You forgot the disclaimer... I'll add it for you: "Perhaps because there's eternal hope of converting some who believe differently, if only they can be exposed to the Truth* ?" * Note that "Truth" in this context refers to the Christian cult brand name information product sold in their church businesses, and has nothing to do with the generic word "truth".
KatmanDo Champion Author Detroit Posts:12,808 Points:2,614,235 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Sep 30, 2006 12:24:21 PM Ignore KatmanDo Report Abuse "Why do christians feel the need to post here? If an atheist would post in the christianity forum and say there is no god, they would be the first ones to cry foul." Perhaps because there's eternal hope of converting some who believe differently, if only they can be exposed to the Truth?
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Sep 29, 2006 6:43:13 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse zippylady - Totally legitimate in my opinion - evangelical means to be evangelistic or an evangelist, which would be an itinerant or missionary preacher. So if someone wanted to preach about atheism as if on a mission, why not? Madness comes about when things don't make sense and false answers are dubbed in as being the truth without being further examined and thereby alters the actual truth.
zippylady Champion Author Toronto Posts:38,461 Points:2,780,780 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 28, 2006 10:53:01 AM Ignore zippylady Report Abuse Hi All, just wondering......can someone be an evangelical atheist?? I saw the phrase on a delightful blog, written by a guy in England......thought it was quite amusing but possibly true! On his blog, he asks "where does madness end and relgion begin?" Something to think about......hmmm!
diamondmike Champion Author Cleveland Posts:26,660 Points:2,776,400 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 20, 2006 11:34:20 AM Ignore diamondmike Report Abuse LilBlue - I like the N/A label. Get well soon.
LilBlueElement Champion Author San Bernardino Posts:1,412 Points:147,970 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Sep 16, 2006 9:05:33 PM Ignore LilBlueElement Report Abuse >An agnostic is making an affirmative statement that he/she does not know what they believe. That's not true at all for me, of course I can't speak for anyone else. I'd rather not be labelled with anything, except "N/A" (not applicable). I have no idea if god (or God or G-d if you prefer) exists, but that's not important. What's important is I don't care. It doesn't affect my life one way or the other. I like the discussion though, it gives me something to do while recovering from major spine surgery.
zippylady Champion Author Toronto Posts:38,461 Points:2,780,780 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 6, 2006 2:19:26 PM Ignore zippylady Report Abuse Gee, you can sure tell there's a full moon this week!! Some are acting over the top, for sure. How are you folks doing?? It's pretty scary stuff in the Christian/Religious Debate forums the last couple of days. Just wondered if DiamondMike would please email me...... Lucky_ducky_2 at msn dot com Thanks. Hope someone reported Swoop....
diamondmike Champion Author Cleveland Posts:26,660 Points:2,776,400 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 5, 2006 7:42:03 AM Ignore diamondmike Report Abuse swoop - You may believe whatever you wish. However this is the atheist agnostic forum. Why do christians feel the need to post here? If an atheist would post in the christianity forum and say there is no god, they would be the first ones to cry foul. Oh, wait christians just have to be right and must convince everyone else that theirs is the only possible correct view. Satan be with you.
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Sep 5, 2006 12:41:22 AM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse swoopster - Pray you allow me the same freedom to come to your form and and speak the same. All I wished to point out was know the audience to with whom you are speaking and communicate something which is within their reality level unless you wish to provoke opposition. I never stated Christ wasn't real, I only said you can't prove that the Peace can "only" be brought by Christ. You may believe that, but how's he going to pull it off?
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Sep 4, 2006 9:20:18 PM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse swoopster - it's fine that you want to believe the Christ story and give your 2 cents worth, but why can't you insist on wishing, "May the Peace be with you always", without adding that "only Christ can bring" when it's not something you can prove or is acceptable in an atheist or agnostic form? It only show that there is nothing in this form for you as your mind is not your own, but a regurgitation of religious rhetoric.
johnsell Champion Author Portland Posts:19,734 Points:3,312,355 Joined:Jan 2004	Message Posted: Sep 4, 2006 9:10:01 AM Ignore johnsell Report Abuse jb = My, my, my, look who is calling the kettle black? Aren't we rightous though? Go ahead and show us how blindly Christian you are...
diamondmike Champion Author Cleveland Posts:26,660 Points:2,776,400 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2006 3:01:13 PM Ignore diamondmike Report Abuse Jb - Take your self righteous christian stuff to the christianity forum. You cannot understand atheists, so stop spreading your propaganda. Go back to you cult.
#12#_GawdOfThunder Rookie Author Des Moines Posts:1 Points:120 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Sep 3, 2006 2:21:55 PM Ignore #12#_GawdOfThunder Report Abuse Religion and churches are simple social clubs. Social clubs require paying members to keep putting of the show each week. It's really as simple as that. It sure helps when you can scare them to death that if they don't give lots of money to the social club that they will burn for eternity. Man... If legitimate charities could pull that stunt, they sure would'nt have and problem finding funds.
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,266 Points:3,376,525 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Sep 2, 2006 2:47:09 PM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse antipixie, Welcome to GB! I find it quite humorous the way some theists respond to atheism. I swear Atheists are the biggest fear of some.
antipixie Rookie Author Madison Posts:4 Points:6,080 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: Sep 1, 2006 12:48:15 PM Ignore antipixie Report Abuse There are a lot of people who are in religions because it feels comfortable for them to believe. They are too lazy to learn more about their religion just like some people are too lazy to clean their houses. It's easier to sit around and take whatever's given to them than to stand up and do something about it. I'm an atheist. I have found that people are more inclined to dislike atheists not because they don't believe (though that IS still something that we're condemned for in this country) but because atheists typically know more about Christianity/any religions than believers do. No one likes a know-it-all, especially when the know-it-all says there's no heaven.
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,266 Points:3,376,525 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Aug 21, 2006 12:35:56 AM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse Immaturity, maybe.
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,266 Points:3,376,525 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Aug 20, 2006 10:38:53 AM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse How old are you, LAB16? I'm guessing not quite 16.
BeamerBlue Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:456 Points:38,035 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jun 9, 2006 9:31:10 AM Ignore BeamerBlue Report Abuse Joy- anyone who knows me can you I can't tell a lie to save my life and get away with it! So, I rarely do any more. My lies are usually not to get me out of trouble- I tend to stay away from that. If i do something wrong I'll admit it. They are usually to save someone else from getting their feelings hurt. Or telling someone everything will be ok when there is no way it will be. I don't think that will buy me a seat in hell if there is a hell.
Joy2U Champion Author Allentown Posts:15,018 Points:2,680,315 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 8, 2006 6:53:43 PM Ignore Joy2U Report Abuse BeamerBlue.... You posted: "Of course I have told a lie, but that doesn't make me an all around bad person." Well, Beamer, ... it does make you a liar. Just like it makes me a liar. The lies that I told were to keep me out of trouble, or to get something that I wanted. If I were to honestly examine my behavior, I would have to admit that my lies were selfish lies. How about you? Were your lies also selfish, self-serving lies? ~
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,266 Points:3,376,525 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Jun 8, 2006 3:40:17 PM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse I don't understand what the point of threatening "You'll go to hell, if..." is, because they turn around and say "God Forgives." It's kinda like saying, "You're going to prison, unless you apologize, and ask the judge nicely to let you be free." Xianity is so screwy!
BeamerBlue Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:456 Points:38,035 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jun 8, 2006 8:35:06 AM Ignore BeamerBlue Report Abuse Joy- Of course I have told a lie, but that doesn't make me an all around bad person. It means I have flaws- I am human. Flaws don't make someone bad. I refuse to live my life believing I am a bad person- if I am already a bad seed what is my motivation for doing anything good? To attain perfection, which if I am inherently bad, is entirely unattainable?
vhouger Champion Author Seattle Posts:12,625 Points:2,526,760 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Jun 7, 2006 2:21:04 PM Ignore vhouger Report Abuse If one were to observe these organizations' behaviors, attitudes, and words towards one another and others, it sure seems like you on to something. [Edited by: vhouger at 6/7/2006 3:21:35 PM EST]
Joy2U Champion Author Allentown Posts:15,018 Points:2,680,315 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 7, 2006 1:22:00 PM Ignore Joy2U Report Abuse BeamerBlue..... You posted: "We are not all bad. If your religion makes you believe that, or worse feel that way, I feel sorry for you. I do nothing that needs forgiveness from anyone or anything." Beamer, there is no religion that makes me think or feel that I am bad. I know that I am bad by my own honest self-appraisal. In the past, I have told people things that I knew were untrue. In other words, I mislead people, and I lied to people. That will show you that I am bad. No religion tells me this, I know in my heart that lying is bad. ~ Have you ever told a lie Beamer? ~ [Edited by: Joy2U at 6/7/2006 2:26:14 PM EST]
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,266 Points:3,376,525 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Jun 6, 2006 5:14:41 AM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse OK, most religions, christian based religions included.
#12#_fruit_blender Rookie Author Atlanta Posts:2 Points:240 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Jun 5, 2006 10:31:40 PM Ignore #12#_fruit_blender Report Abuse Are you talking about every world religion, or just the Church? There's a difference, and a person that generalizes about every religion is truely mistaken.
theco2 Champion Author Des Moines Posts:23,266 Points:3,376,525 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Jun 5, 2006 9:00:18 PM Ignore theco2 Report Abuse Yep, religion will do that to you. --- For the non-theists in here, check out The Heathen Hangout. [Edited by: theco2 at 6/5/2006 10:00:38 PM EST]
BeamerBlue Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:456 Points:38,035 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jun 5, 2006 12:19:01 PM Ignore BeamerBlue Report Abuse Joy- We are not all bad. If your religion makes you believe that, or worse feel that way, I feel sorry for you. I do nothing that needs forgiveness from anyone or anything.
Joy2U Champion Author Allentown Posts:15,018 Points:2,680,315 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2006 8:36:27 PM Ignore Joy2U Report Abuse Beamer, You are correct, just because somebody doesn't believe in God, doesn't make them bad. We are all bad. Some worse than others, perhaps, but we are all bad. Those who believe in God and those who do not - we are all bad. The one distinction is that some of us bad people are forgiven.
kempo831 Champion Author South Carolina Posts:1,004 Points:17,005 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2006 4:22:34 PM Ignore kempo831 Report Abuse Beamer, You are correct, just because somebody doesn't believe in God, doesn't make them bad or evil. Just be cause they do believe, doesn't make them, good, either. I think that people who deny God, but accept karma do believe in a higher power of some sort. I could be wrong, though.
hypGnosis Champion Author Missouri Posts:1,996 Points:320,035 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2006 1:17:38 PM Ignore hypGnosis Report Abuse BeamerBlue, I think Thomas Jefferson is often credited for quoting, "Common sense isn't all that common." And I agree that using fear as a deterrent isn't all that effective either. I think Woody Allen is credited with, "If Captial Punishment is to be effective in preventing murder, it should be used before the crime is committed..." or words similar. .
BeamerBlue Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:456 Points:38,035 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jun 2, 2006 10:53:40 AM Ignore BeamerBlue Report Abuse Kempo- I disagree with your statement. Just because someone doesn't believe in God or a higher entity they are not a bad person. Some people know the difference between right and wrong without having to live in fear of a higher entity punishing them, and live honest and good lives. I get by knowing whatever I do in life will eventually make its way back around to me. If my actions are dishonest I better be ready for them to someday hit me tenfold. Most of the things I do in my life are good and have no intentional malice towards others. I don't need something/someone to tell me to be a good person- I've got common sense instead.
kempo831 Champion Author South Carolina Posts:1,004 Points:17,005 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2006 10:01:21 AM Ignore kempo831 Report Abuse And being athiest works great for those who don't want to worry about long term consequences of their actions.
BeamerBlue Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:456 Points:38,035 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jun 1, 2006 7:57:00 AM Ignore BeamerBlue Report Abuse I think religion is great for those too weak to believe they can stand on their own. It is like they need someone/thing to believe in because they can't find enough strength within themselves. [Edited by: BeamerBlue at 6/1/2006 8:57:34 AM EST]