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WildBillPA Rookie Author Pennsylvania Posts:1 Points:120 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Jul 13, 2011 4:40:13 PM Ignore WildBillPA Report Abuse My experience!!! I keep a small 160 gal. gas tank at my home to run my tractor and small gas appliances. Last October. I had my regular supplier deliver a full tank of regular gas. This was the first delivery I had ever received which had 10% ethanol in it. He didn't tell me that it had it in there either. Anyway, I don't use gas from this tank over the winter months because I don't have to mow lawns and run my tractor until it gets warmer. Well, come March I had my daughter visit me from school and was almost out of gas to make the return trip. So, I told her we could fill up her car from the tank talked about above. I personally pumped the gas into her car -- (filled it up). Guess what ---- ? The car wouldn't start or move off the spot. It took me a while to figure out what the deal was. After pumping a gallon jar full of this s---, I saw the results. I had half a jar of gas and half a jar of water (ethanol) I had to pay a garage $450.00 to drop the tank and drain it and had to buy new filters and clean the entire fuel system. Why, I had no idea. So I called my gas delivery company. "Now" he tells me that you can't leave this new stuff sit more than 60 or ninety days without using it up or the ethanol will separate from the gas and basically become like water in the bottom of your tank. How many things that you know of run on water??? Also the separated ethanol will "deep clean" the inside of the tank --- meaning any rust or other foreign material which had coated the inside of the tank over the years came loose and got in the liquid, completely clogging up the entire dispensing system. A new filter lasted for about 2 gallons. Also, I almost forgot --- This past week I tried to start another car which I've been working on for about a year. I had put about 1/4 of a tankful in this vehicle also out of the tank in reference and had not tried to start it since November. Wouldn't run or start. Now what?? another d--- repair bill. So to sum it up-- you had better drain or run dry all of your weed eaters, leaf blowers, lawn mowers, 4 wheelers, etc. that you don't use over the winter or you will end up just like I did. Sooooo! ------ do I like E10 ---- don't think so. Oh by the way the mileage in my honda civic has gone from 31 MPG to 27 MPG. Mileage in my crown victoria police cruiser has gone from 13 MPG to 10 MPG. They make an additive you can add to you tank to help with this problem, but who wants to spend $8.00 per pint to try to fix a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place. Why can't they give us a choice of what to buy and use? Anyway I'm posting this so that the people that don't know what will happen (and it's guaranteed to happen) if they don't use this ethanol added gas up right away after purchasing it. Sucks, doesn't it?

WildBillPA

Rookie Author
Pennsylvania

Posts:1
Points:120
Joined:Jul 2011

Message Posted: Jul 13, 2011 4:40:13 PM

Ignore WildBillPA Report Abuse

My experience!!! I keep a small 160 gal. gas tank at my home to run my tractor and small gas appliances. Last October. I had my regular supplier deliver a full tank of regular gas. This was the first delivery I had ever received which had 10% ethanol in it. He didn't tell me that it had it in there either. Anyway, I don't use gas from this tank over the winter months because I don't have to mow lawns and run my tractor until it gets warmer. Well, come March I had my daughter visit me from school and was almost out of gas to make the return trip. So, I told her we could fill up her car from the tank talked about above. I personally pumped the gas into her car -- (filled it up). Guess what ---- ? The car wouldn't start or move off the spot. It took me a while to figure out what the deal was. After pumping a gallon jar full of this s---, I saw the results. I had half a jar of gas and half a jar of water (ethanol) I had to pay a garage $450.00 to drop the tank and drain it and had to buy new filters and clean the entire fuel system. Why, I had no idea. So I called my gas delivery company. "Now" he tells me that you can't leave this new stuff sit more than 60 or ninety days without using it up or the ethanol will separate from the gas and basically become like water in the bottom of your tank. How many things that you know of run on water??? Also the separated ethanol will "deep clean" the inside of the tank --- meaning any rust or other foreign material which had coated the inside of the tank over the years came loose and got in the liquid, completely clogging up the entire dispensing system. A new filter lasted for about 2 gallons. Also, I almost forgot --- This past week I tried to start another car which I've been working on for about a year. I had put about 1/4 of a tankful in this vehicle also out of the tank in reference and had not tried to start it since November. Wouldn't run or start. Now what?? another d--- repair bill. So to sum it up-- you had better drain or run dry all of your weed eaters, leaf blowers, lawn mowers, 4 wheelers, etc. that you don't use over the winter or you will end up just like I did. Sooooo! ------ do I like E10 ---- don't think so. Oh by the way the mileage in my honda civic has gone from 31 MPG to 27 MPG. Mileage in my crown victoria police cruiser has gone from 13 MPG to 10 MPG. They make an additive you can add to you tank to help with this problem, but who wants to spend $8.00 per pint to try to fix a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place. Why can't they give us a choice of what to buy and use? Anyway I'm posting this so that the people that don't know what will happen (and it's guaranteed to happen) if they don't use this ethanol added gas up right away after purchasing it. Sucks, doesn't it?

REPLIES (newest first)Ignore Short Messages

Daurel Veteran Author Indiana Posts:309 Points:32,770 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Jul 22, 2011 9:21:08 AM Ignore Daurel Report Abuse Oh by the way the mileage in my honda civic has gone from 31 MPG to 27 MPG. Mileage in my crown victoria police cruiser has gone from 13 MPG to 10 MPG. Ok Have to ask you have been using from this tank and Magically it starts dispensing a 50% gas and water? See above statements You have a 160 gallon tank and don't fill your car or your Honda Civic from this tank? And they are running??? Your words not mine. I still have to wonder if the fuel separated how you got a jar of water and gas. As water is heaver than gas. "Now" he tells me that you can't leave this new stuff sit more than 60 or ninety days without using it up or the ethanol will separate from the gas and basically become like water in the bottom of your tank. If what you said is true you have 15-16 gallon of water short of pouring water in your tank that will not happen. Ethanol and gas like each other until water enters the mix and then Yes the Ethanol will attach itself to the water been there done that it is a old fuel test to see if the racers gas was spiked 10oz of gas add 3oz of water there should be a line 3oz of water at the bottom if any less the gas has a additive usually alky with some nitro or other oxidizer in it.
roadrunnin Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,744 Points:562,435 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2011 12:57:43 AM Ignore roadrunnin Report Abuse It sucks that you've had all those repair bills. The gas company was wrong for not telling you about the E-10, but it seems there are a lot of other variables too.
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:22,911 Points:3,528,410 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2011 12:51:42 AM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse For many years, we had to use gas-line antifreeze (alcohol) to prevent carburetor or fuel line icing. What iced up, you ask? Water in the fuel system. If ethanol blend is always used, you have no rust and other garbage in your fuel system, and any water flows through with the gasoline. If you had rust, YOU HAD WATER BEFORE! I have been using E10 since 1981, I don't think there is anything new I need to know about it. I already know it keeps my fuel systems clean. I already know I don't need to add gas-line antifreeze. I already know it has never damaged any of my vehicles, including 1974 and 1976 models. [Edited by: rumbleseat at 7/17/2011 1:54:25 AM EST]
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,530 Points:2,716,115 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2011 12:17:16 AM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse Chemist74 is right. Ethanol blended fuels will take a significant amount of water into solution before it will phase seperate. However gasoline by itself will separate with much less water. Hydrocarbon gasoline cannot hold much water and the water quickly separates and, being heavier than gasoline, goes to the bottom of the tank. A gallon of gasoline comprised solely of hydrocarbons can hold only 0.15 teaspoons of water (at 60°F) before the water will separate. A gasoline blend containing 10v% ethanol would require almost 4 teaspoons of water before phase separation would occur. Therefore in routine operations, ethanol is more likely to suspend moisture and carry it out of the fuel system than hydrocarbon only fuels. It is highly likely that this tank had significant water in it before the fuel was delivered. [Edited by: goldseeker at 7/17/2011 1:18:59 AM EST]
Shockjock1961 Champion Author Illinois Posts:20,100 Points:2,182,235 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jul 16, 2011 12:13:38 PM Ignore Shockjock1961 Report Abuse You forgot about condensation. Fuel tanks have to be vented, and I doubt that the tank he was using had a sophisticated closed vapor recovery system...
movrshakr Champion Author Florida Posts:1,322 Points:1,447,105 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Jul 16, 2011 12:11:55 PM Ignore movrshakr Report Abuse . As you have observed, you will be hammered by the ethanol lovers because ethanol can do no evil in their minds. Thus, if you have a tale of woe, according to them, it COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN CAUSED BY ETHANOL. According to them.
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:13,510 Points:2,395,980 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Jul 16, 2011 8:55:16 AM Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse Ethanol can go bad over time but E10 will not split into a gasoline phase and a "water" phase unless you get a significant amount of "water" into it. The only way to get a "water" phase is if water got into the storage tank. Either you storage tank already had a lot of water in it, water leaked in over the winter or the E10 they delivered was already contaminated with a lot of water.
Bus936 Champion Author Lexington Posts:16,429 Points:3,217,080 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 16, 2011 6:50:49 AM Ignore Bus936 Report Abuse I know one thing about this crap, and that is that you will get 1-4 mpg less on each tank.
furball64801 Champion Author Missouri Posts:4,314 Points:113,265 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 15, 2011 9:53:29 PM Ignore furball64801 Report Abuse I have used E-10 plus in my riders for years. My brother has a lawn service and has used E-10 for over 20 yrs and he has had 0 issues with his equipment. It amazes me how others have such issues.
jacksfan Champion Author Lincoln Posts:2,554 Points:1,235,205 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jul 15, 2011 10:02:45 AM Ignore jacksfan Report Abuse "If you've never had a problem, then you're not getting E10. Have you tested this fuel to confirm it has 10% ethanol, or is it just what is posted on the pump?" Wow! Then perhaps WildBillPA's real problem was that he actually received E-0 instead of E-10. Do we know that he had it tested to confirm that the fuel he received indeed had 10% ethanol? tomintx, you do your credibility no favors when you post such crazieness. Seriously? If someone states they've never had a problem with E-10, then you believe that it must not contain ethanol. But if someone states that they have had a problem with ethanol, then, by golly, those pumps must be labeled correctly! I've driven 135,000+ miles in my 2002 Trailblazer almost exclusively using E-10. By your conspiracy theory, then, every pump at every station in every city and every state that I've visited in that vehicle is mislabeling their E-10. That's flat out nuts, tomintx!
honk2 Rookie Author Ohio Posts:5 Points:2,600 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 6:15:26 PM Ignore honk2 Report Abuse Also, if you pump out the mixture of alcohol/water you will have good gas left in the tank but if you have lost all of your ethanol you will have lost approx 3 octane points. 87 octane e10 is 90% 84 octane base gas plus the 10% ethanol which boosts the octane to 87.
honk2 Rookie Author Ohio Posts:5 Points:2,600 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 5:55:11 PM Ignore honk2 Report Abuse What you experieced is "phase separation". I would bet my life that when you had E10 delivered there was some water at the bottom of YOUR tank which started to immediately pull the ethanol down out of the gas and gave you a useless mixture of water and ethanol at the bottom of your tank. As far as e10 having a short life span before separation, I don't believe that to be true without water being present. It takes very little water to cause phase separation. In reference to "goldseeker"'s reply... the chance of getting "bad gas" delivered is extremely unlikely. However, the delivery company should have warned you about checking your tank for water before delivery since this is a fairly common problem with 1st time e10 deliveries especially to small aboveground tanks which are very likely to build up a surprising amount of condensation every year especially if they are exposed to sunshine every day.
stickyvalves Champion Author Iowa Posts:5,260 Points:1,554,695 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 5:17:22 PM Ignore stickyvalves Report Abuse As I said earlier, hope he feels better.
jsoko Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,310 Points:608,670 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 4:18:47 PM Ignore jsoko Report Abuse E-fuel doesn't cause discussions like this, it's ignorance!
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,530 Points:2,716,115 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 4:12:27 PM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse "For those who found fault with the original poster's rant --> you missed the entire point ... if they didn't force E-fuel on us, this thread wouldn't have been written! " That is pure BS. The real problem is not with ethanol, but lies somewhere else.
tomintx All-Star Author Dallas Posts:744 Points:80,235 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 3:30:24 PM Ignore tomintx Report Abuse GS: "I leave ethanol blended gas in my small engines for 6 months at time and also in spare fuel tanks for up to a year and have never had any problems. I have been using exclusively E10 for about 13 years." If you've never had a problem, then you're not getting E10. Have you tested this fuel to confirm it has 10% ethanol, or is it just what is posted on the pump? Maybe you're lucky and getting real gas without knowing it.
krzysiek_ck Champion Author Illinois Posts:5,312 Points:726,210 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 3:23:06 PM Ignore krzysiek_ck Report Abuse OceanArcher, maybe there is more to the story than it was written.
OceanArcher Champion Author Mississippi Posts:5,693 Points:1,325,450 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 2:06:01 PM Ignore OceanArcher Report Abuse For those who found fault with the original poster's rant --> you missed the entire point ... if they didn't force E-fuel on us, this thread wouldn't have been written!
stickyvalves Champion Author Iowa Posts:5,260 Points:1,554,695 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 11:11:57 AM Ignore stickyvalves Report Abuse Such a rant. Hope you feel better.
tropicalmn Sophomore Author Minnesota Posts:172 Points:145,815 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jul 14, 2011 10:14:30 AM Ignore tropicalmn Report Abuse If your bulk tank was completely empty as you claim then you were delivered fuel with water in or there is some issue with water entering your bulk tank.IF your tank was that rusty inside you must have been having moisture problems causing corrosion in the tank.I last had a bulk delivery of 125 gal. of E10 on Sept.14,2010(tank wasn't empty) into my own 260gal tank.Still using up this fuel (almost gone) as of today with NO PROBLEMS! Never have I heard from local suppliers that E10 doesn't keep well less than 6 months.
Ciderbarrel Sophomore Author Maryland Posts:246 Points:53,725 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jul 13, 2011 5:52:16 PM Ignore Ciderbarrel Report Abuse Wow, that was a crazy wall of text. Sorry dude, but if you can't take the time to properly format your thoughts to make them readable, I'm not going to take the time to try to read that jumble.
goldseeker Champion Author West Virginia Posts:19,530 Points:2,716,115 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 13, 2011 5:27:05 PM Ignore goldseeker Report Abuse Look. That guy delivered you a tank of gas that already had excessive amounts of water in it. I leave ethanol blended gas in my small engines for 6 months at time and also in spare fuel tanks for up to a year and have never had any problems. I have been using exclusively E10 for about 13 years. Trying to blame the problem on ethanol just won't wash. I personally left a opened jar with a loose lid for of E10 for 2 years, and there was no phase seperation. Eventually the fuel evaporated. You can believe anything you want, but I can assure you that ethanol was not the fault here, it was bad gas and the delivery man used ethanol as a scape goat. If it was me I would sue the gas company to recoup your expenses.